Raymond Parenting

I just had my 3rd baby, I have 3 under 4 years of age.  And i did your telephone consult w/ my second child and applied it to both my first and second at the time.  However, I’m struggling with number three she was colicy from 2 weeks of age and has never and I mean this with absolute certainty, napped.  She naps 20 minutes twice daily and sleeps 5 hours in the evenings.  I am also a stay at home parent to a 4 year old and 2 and a half year old and am starting to spend most of my time in the closet crying.  So I really am desperate to have some help with my baby.  The sadest thing is she’s my last child and I’m most of the time not enjoying my time with her, probably because I’m spending 18 to 20 wakeful hours with her daily and am sleep deprived and have tried everything from vibrating chairs to swings to rocking her in my arms, to letting her cry it out in the crib as long as two hours.  She only gets more hysterical until she can’t catch her breath.  I’m such a believer in your seminars and telephone counsel.  But in this case it’s not working, can I have the 1 % of babies that can’t be helped?  She’s so unhappy, never rested never alert or full of energy.  The colic was a health issue as far as her stomach was concerned but now that’s under control and she still has no rest.  I stopped breastfeeding as she wanted to eat every 45 minutes.  HELP… thanks Kitty for all that you do!

By Monica Francescangeli on January 11, 2010

We had the amazing experience of having a midwife for the birth of our daughter who is now 17 months old.  They were supportive of choices when it came to the birth of our daughter, and mostly supportive when it came to our decisions after she was born.

We insisted that she sleep in her crib in her own room from day one, they supported this where I"m told most parents have the baby in their room for a while.  I had great luck breast feeding, so I’m not sure how it would have played out if I had problems.  But, in the first two weeks our little angel would sleep as long as 5 hours at a time even for some daytime naps.  This was a big NO NO according to the midwife and we were encouraged to wake and feed our daughter every two to three hours.  I refused.  They claimed that in the first two weeks, if baby is not getting enough nutrition this can lead them to be lethargic and sleep more because they don’t have enough energy and may not be putting on weight.  I trusted my instincts and knew my daughter was healthy, happy and thriving.  I agreed to wake my daughter after 5 hours for the remainder of the first two weeks only and then would conform to my belief - Never wake a sleeping baby.

I only woke her a couple of times during that 10 days and was guilty every time.  I would not do it again.  You spend the most time with your baby.  You know if they’re doing well or if there is cause for concern. 

We were blessed with a fairly easy baby, but thanks to Kitty’s seminars we were also able to teach her great sleep skills, independent play, and to have fun exploring food.  I’m looking forward to her next seminars.

I am amazed at how supportive health practitioners are during pregnancies and tell mom’s to trust their intuition if they think there is something wrong.  Why is it that support goes away with the birth of the baby?  One of the best things Kitty said in the “Sleep from the Start” seminar is “Having a baby is supposed to be fun… If you’re not having fun, you need to try something new and get help”.  I encourage all parents to get help really early and not wait for feelings of helplessness to take over.

By Jenn Lofgren on January 12, 2010

Both these thoughtful comments give us insight into the problems that new families can face.

Monica, I hope you will send me your email address so I can contact you and see if I can make some suggestions. We need to figure out if your daughter’s colic is truly under control, see how we can figure out how to get you and her more sleep - and help you regain your parenting confidence. Constantly crying babies create a level of stress unlike any other.
Please call 403-242-3533 or write me at .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

By Kitty on January 12, 2010

Monica… HANG IN THERE! My son was colicky and had reflux. I was miserable:( Along with my pediatrician and KITTY (via several email consults) we got my son from NO naps and NO sleep to 3 long naps and 12 hours at night! Hang in:)

By Josline Stefanick on January 12, 2010

I feel for you Monica!  I did Raymond sleep training for my first child and it took him literally 20 minutes on night one and night two and from 3 months on he was sleeping 12 hours.
My second child is a whole other story.  The first day he cried/fussed for 2 hours straight for each nap. He still has trouble falling asleep after the 40 minute wake up (this after 12 weeks of training!)  He is still waking up at night 3 times and fussing/howling each of those 3 times.  I have had to give in a few times after prolonged crying but I find I am so torn as to what to do because I really want him to have the same sleep habits and the resultant development that his brother has had because of his ability to sleep.
I completely believe in the benefits of Raymond sleep training but I am nearing my wits end.  I can’t figure this one out!  Should I be waiting until he is older to try it again?  I find I can be consistent with naps because with a busy 2 year old at my heels I just can’t run and pick him up any sooner than 1.5 to 2 hours but at night my little guy will talk/fuss/howl for hours!  I think I am now a little “gun shy” because on one of the nights early on he fussed on and off (occasional 20 min breaks) for 4 hours until I ended up rescuing him.  I really want to continue training but this seems to be going on forever and sometimes it is just easier to go in and feed him so he can at least sleep for 3 more hours.  If any one has experienced this after this amount of prolonged training, help!  Is it pointless to continue or will it just click one of these days?

By M. Taylor on January 12, 2010

I had a large amount of blood loss during the birth, which healthcare professionals stated was the reason for why my breastmilk didn’t come in. I struggled with trying to establish my milk while supplementing formula. I visited a breast reeding clinic weekly where mybaby was weighed after a feed to see how much milk she was getting from the breast. To improve my flow, I take the maximum dose of motilium, herbs 4x a day and a preparation given to me by my naturopath. I also pump 4x a day. My baby has struggled to gain weight-in the 5th percentile after falling 2 increments. Most recently she weaned herself from the breast, crying and refusing it. Now bottle fed, she is gaining weight steadily and much happier!  I still pump to feed her 2 feeds ofvbreastmilk per day because I believe that she benefits from it. I wonder though, had I not been coached to continue with breastfeeding, would she still have lost momentum in her weight gain?  As a first time mom I was struggling with everything!!! And was trusting of healthcare professionals who may have lead me down an unhealthy path for my baby.

By Jennifer on January 13, 2010

I have a 7 month old and a 2 year old (almost 3).  Our oldest daughter was colicky (for 6 months!!), had reflux, had to wear a hip brace… and took months to finally have great naps and sleep 12 hours.  I too kept writing Kitty to ask if maybe I just happened to have a baby who couldn’t be ‘trained’, and for a while, we were both quite perplexed.  Not only was she not a great sleeper, but the lack of sleep made her even more cranky than she already was and she wasn’t happy even if her parents were holding her, I was heart broken. 

After many months (and me questioning and doubting every day why I became a parent), we had our super sleeper, and she still is.  After the first year with our first, I decided that I could handle another child, but worried every day from the time she was conceived that she would be colicky like her sister. 

Our second daughter was born and has been an angel since she came into the world.  My husband and I are convinced we have an abnormal baby because she only cries if she is hungry.  We are honestly in awe and had no clue babies could actually be this laid back and so much fun!!! She was over 4 months when she finally reached that magical number…12 lbs.  In no time, she was sleeping 12-13 hours at night and before long, 3 great naps.  Of course, there’s always a hiccup here and there, but overall, my husband and I get date night every night and I am able to enjoy some ‘me’ time every afternoon while both girls nap.  Ahhhhhh. 

One comment I would like to make and possibly get some feed back on is weight gain.  My 7 month old is not on the chart for weight gain and although she is gaining she seems to be following her own curve (her older sister has always been long and light).  We’ve done blood work and nothing came back from that, she is breast fed and has been on solids since about 5 1/2 months since it was recommended to help her gain weight.  Of course, we’ve been told to supplement with formula (which she refuses to take, doesn’t seem to like the taste), to let her feed whenever she wants and to feed her solids at least 3 times a day (Kitty, if I remember correctly, your recommendation is that babies main source of food is still milk up to the first year).  Now, we just recently took her for her vaccines.  I informed the nurse that we were keeping an eye on her weight and that she was being followed by our doctor, told her she nurses well, is eating a huge variety of foods, including finger foods and sleeps 12 hours at night and naps well during the day.  Well, that was the kicker!  When the nurse saw that my daughter was still not on the curve, although she continues to grow, gain weight and has reached the milestones for her age, we were given some interesting advice… I was told I needed to start waking her at least twice during the night in order to give her increased calories.  I was told I obviously had a laid back baby and perhaps she may be sleeping for too long in a 24 hour period and therefore may not be getting a sufficient amount of food.  Thank goodness this is my second baby because I was able to smile and nod at the nurse, who looked me straight in the eye and told me at least 7 times before I left the office that I needed to wake my baby during the night.  Now, I know there’s a chance that I could be wrong and perhaps should be more worried, but I look at my daughter, have friends and family look at her and we all see a happy, very energetic baby who sleeps and eats extremely well.  My gut tells me that if I were to wake her during the night, she would start eating less during the day knowing that she would be fed at night.  Now not only will she not gain the weight medical professionals want to see, but I wouldn’t have a well rested baby and our house would have a very grouchy mommy!

So for now, I believe that my little one may just be on her own growth curve, that we’ll continue to monitor her growth and watch for any red flags. 

Any feedback?

By Angela on January 13, 2010

Angela…

If as an adult, you weren’t average, you were shorter than “the curve” and weighed less than “the curve” yet felt happy and healthy…  If you knew you were in good health and had healthy eating and great sleep hygiene, would you believe that you had to gain weight because you didn’t conform?

I would say trust your instincts.  You believe that your youngest is healthy and thriving.  I too ran into the issue that my daughter was tall and lean and still is today.  She was also an angel baby like yours and both slept and ate very well.  At my 6 month vaccinations, she went from 50% weight to 10%.  The nurse encouraged me to feed my daughter more.  I said - how?  Force feed her?  I don’t think so.  She eats when she is hungry and stops when she is full.  I think babies have an amazing gift that we have lost as adults because society wants us all to fit certain norms and do things like clean our plates to be “polite”.  Today, my daughter is 17 months and still only 20%~ish for weight and I say who cares?  As long as she is healthy, growing etc… That’s all that matters to me.

Finally, I’ll say that I have a friend who’s daughter was not on the charts for either weight or height.  She was very small.  After a year of medical tests and much guilt for feeling like inadequate parents, the doctors discovered that this little girl was just “smaller than average”.  No kidding.  The grief they put that family through is unacceptable as the little one was growing, thriving, happy and healthy.

Trust your instincts.

By Jenn Lofgren on January 13, 2010

I couldn’t agree more with advice above from other mom’s and Kitty.

I too, have had 1 child who was a dream eater and sleeper. Then we had twins! I too gave up breastfeeding one of my twins due to poor weight gain, and now almost 8 months he continues to be small and the most easy going, loving and happy baby. However his twin, did breastfeed but was also “smaller” (not conforming to the charts, rather following his own curve) had a very difficult time sleeping well. We continued with Kitty’s advice (yes it seemed to take months this time) and now at 8 months the twins sleep 12 hours through the night, with 2 excellent naps during the day. They are happy, healthy, well rested growing boys. I continue to be very cautious of any non-medical advice from nurses and follow the lead of my children and my insticts. Afterall my husband and I are the parents!

Like so many other families we had our fair share of unwanted and false advice from lactation consultants and public health nurses. We also spent way too much time and energy woring about the growth chart. Society seems fixated on measuring everything including our children. I wonder if doctors and nursed focused on this graphs and charts as much 20 or 40 years ago? I feel as though new parents are on information overload about how to care, feed, and “help” our children.

It is beyond me why a nurse would suggest waking a sleeping 7 month old for food, not for a medical reason, but because the baby is not conforming to the typical growth chart. I think this is completely crazy!!! You have a very healthy happy little baby who sleeps well and is growing the way she is supposed to be. We should celebrate that.

My advice to all the other mom’s is to follow the lead of your baby and your insincts. Find a doctor you trust and respect and leave the rest behind. We need to spend more time enjoying our little babes rather than worried about how they meausre up. And we can all get some much needed sleep as well! Thanks to Kitty and the support of other mom’s and dads!

By Amber on January 13, 2010

Thank you for this great write-up. The pressure I received from health care professionals after the birth of my first son was overwhelming. I did not have sufficient milk to nourish my son but was made to feel so guilty for offering a bottle. While I believe these professionals have good intentions, the approach can have a negative effect on new parents’ confidence in caring for their children (which is already typically low with the first). I had a miserable baby who was not sleeping and not gaining weight along with multiple episodes of mastitis but was still pressured to breast feed. As soon as I offered a bottle, my son improved instantly - sleeping better and gaining weight.

By Sarah on January 14, 2010

As a health care professional, I think one significant clarification needs to be made about this posting - this advice applies only to full-term, normal birth weight infants.  Some babies need to be woken to feed in special circumstances.  This being said, I couldn’t agree more with babies’ need for food AND sleep.  I am personally a dedicated breast-feeding mom and also a mom who promotes and protects my children’s sleep with Kitty’s strategies - and I find it to be the best of both worlds.

By TK on January 14, 2010

Hi Jennifer,
I read your post and couldn’t believe your first statement…that you had a large amount of blood loss and were told that could be the reason your milk didn’t come in. I also had a large amount of blood loss and insufficient milk production, but was never told this! All I was told was “pump, pump, pump…keep trying! breast is best! formula is bad!” (okay, I’m exaggerating a little!) I had intended on breastfeeding for at least 6 months and felt like a bad mother when I had to supplement with formula very early on. I look back and cannot believe how rude and insensitive some of the nurses were. I ended up going through a difficult time of PPD, and do place some of the blame on some of the nurses’ responses to my bfing difficulties. My hubbie and I now have a thriving 2 year old little boy and are looking forward to (hopefully) having a second baby. We are so excited about the second time around…where I can follow my instincts and not feel a speck of guilt if my baby needs formula! Thank you Kitty for this info.

By Anna on February 9, 2010

Hi Kitty,
I totally agree with you on the reason babies have sleeping problems.  And I’m so thankful to read all these comments about small babies.  My second daughter has just been referred to a pediatrician because at 9 months she hasn’t gained any weight since her 6 month check up.  She is totally healthy in every way, she eats a TON.  She’s just very very active and probably burns a lot of calories. Even the doc kept saying she looks just fine.  He wanted to refer her just in case, and I’m all for extra caution.  I was wondering what I would be told when I go to the appointment at the end of the month.  Now, after reading these comments, I feel a little more prepared.  She’s a 12 hr sleeper and does 2 naps during the day and it’s been a long journey to get her into this routine.  So if someone told me to start feeding her in the night it would totally deflate me - I’ve worked really hard to secure a good chunk of sleep in order to meet my own sleep needs.  Good to hear from other parents who have been down this road!

By ck on February 10, 2010

Kitty, I have a 5 month old who sleeps 45 min 4 times a day.  I am not sure if this meets the required daily sleep hours but i am having a really hard time feeding her every 3 hours if she only sleeps 45 min.  by the time the next feeding comes around she’s been up for over and hour and feels sleepy again.  Really dont’ know what to do here, if I need to retrain her as I have followed your guidelines when she was 3 months old and it was very hard and somewhat successful.  Any advice?

By Anjali Cater on February 15, 2010

Anjali,

This really isn’t the best avenue for me to give advice, though I can say that the method for lengthening his naps will be to leave him for a full nap time (2 hours) even when he starts crying after 45 minutes.  He isn’t finished sleeping and therefore is crying.  Given enough opportunities, he’ll eventually learn how to get himself back to sleep to finish off the nap.  It is also very important that you are putting him always into bed fully awake for each nap and night. 

If you need more help with the “how to” of this, please book a Telephone Counseling appointment, send an Ask Kitty email through the Store, or attend Sleep from Now On.  The next date will be early in April.

By Kitty Raymond on February 15, 2010

You are right. Babies have not changed. They have evolved, through all the millenia, with a physiological, biological norm of sleeping for only a few hours at a time. Human babies’ food (human breastmilk) is digested in a matter of a few hours at very most, and their wakefulness with need to eat is a brilliant evolutionary strategy that (along with their need to sleep in close physical contact with their mothers) allows them to survive the dangers of what we now call “SIDS”, waking them from the very real risks of deep sleep and immature respiratory response. There are many “modern, civilized” techniques for forcing a child to sleep longer and more often than is safe and biologically normal for the perceived convenience and “liberating” detachment of mothers, but all of these designs are fraught with peril. Responding to an infants authentic needs will indeed make for a happy and healthy child. Tricks and tips that feed the modern Western compulsion to manipulate nature only make a baby unhappy, unfulfilled, and that much harder to “manage”.

By Anna on February 18, 2010

I am sorry but I really must respond to the last comment.  While I respect your opinion it must be noted that every situation and child is different.  Some babies are oversensitive to every little thing, including being held, and patted and any other method we perceive as being soothing.  They are unable to fall asleep by these aforementioned methods and as a result become more miserable, unhappy and unhealthy.  In this same respect there are mothers who find it difficult to meet these types of rigorous demands who otherwise would end up with postpartum depression if some method of sleep training wasn’t enlisted. Sleep training is necessary in many cases to help a child become healthy and thrive.  I have both types of children, one who could not be soothed to sleep no matter how hard you tried and another who only wanted to be held while sleeping.  The one was able to be sleep trained nearly within twenty minutes, the other still struggles with sleeping through the night.  My job as a parent is to trust my heart and do what I feel is right in any given situation.  Sometimes that means going to them in the middle of night and other times it means giving them a chance to work it out for themselves.  Believe me neither choice is easy. Sleep and nourishment are equally important to a growing child.  A child cannot thrive without a steady diet of both. Only you, as your child’s parent knows how to help your child obtain the right amount of each.

By Michelle on February 18, 2010

Anjali,
I just had to respond to your comment and send some support your way. I was in the exact same boat as you when my son was approx. 6-7 mths old. He refused to sleep for more than 40 minutes at a time. I did absolutely everything recommended by Kitty and countless other experts, and he would NOT sleep more than 40 minutes. It got to the point where I was feeling down on myself because I couldn’t get him to follow the schedule I thought he should be on. It all changed when I realized that worrying so much about the length of his naps was sucking the joy out of my relationship with my son. For awhile I decided to do my best, but not freak out if he woke up after 40 minutes, just go with the flow. And guess what, it passed. After a few more weeks went by, he ended up having a 40 minute nap in the morning, a 2-3 hour nap from 11-1 or 2, and a 40 minute nap in the late afternoon. Now he is over 2 and sleeps for 2+ hrs in the afternoon and 11-12 hrs at night. What I’m trying to say is, just relax and this too shall pass.

By Julie on February 18, 2010

Kitty-
Would you please elaborate on how you are establishing your opinion that babies having sleep problems is a recent phenomenon?  Do you have data in regards to the increase in counseling requests on that topic?

By Lola on February 20, 2010

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/7/T070200.asp
8 Infant Sleep Facts Every Parent Sould Know
Every parent and child is different and in light of the SIDS issue understanding infant physiological development and digestive needs is HIGHLY important!!

By slightly concerned momma on February 20, 2010