Raymond Parenting

Wow, this is so well written.  I thought that I would have an instant network of best friends when I became a parent.  When this didn’t happen, I was so surprised.  I have seen many clubs - who makes their own baby products (shampoo, lotion, etc), who diapers with cloth versus disposable, who finds the best toys and books, etc.  As I parent my 2 year old spunky child, I have felt much judgement from parents of younger children (or adults without kids) - you are absolutely right, let’s support each other.  After all, it takes a village doesn’t it??

By Kate on March 23, 2010

Hi Kitty,
Don’t forget the stay-at-home-mom club vs the working mom club.  These clubs include memberships with dayhome vs daycare vs family member babysitting clubs!

I wonder if our false pride, competitiveness and proselytizing come from our insecurity that we are not doing the “right thing” for our own children.  I’m always hoping that what I’m doing is best for my children and our family but I know that I’m trying my best for them.  If we all remember that parents with different views than our own are trying their best too, maybe we would be more accepting of each other.

Thanks for the great blog today!

By Tanya Molcan on March 23, 2010

I’ve been lucky enough to make friends with a variety of women who, so far, have not passed judgment on the choices I’ve made with my daughter and I’m doing my best to return the favour. We have moms who use cloth diapers, moms who bottle feed, moms who follow AP, moms who are planning their return to work and, of course, the “opposite” of all of these. 

What I find difficult, and perhaps this is how some clubs get started, is sharing what “works” with everyone in a manner that doesn’t come across as “doing it this way Works Best”.  Sleeping, for instance, was so dramatically different and better for everyone in our family after implementing your program that I wanted to tell the whole world!  I have to keep reminding myself that the experiences of the parents I know could be much different than my own and my story might not be applicable.

So, while I don’t attend any club meetings, and I don’t agree with an attitude of exclusiveness or judgment, I can understand the appeal of belonging.  Everyone likes to hear that they’re “doing it right”.

By Megan on March 23, 2010

Great article - and so true!  There’s also the soother vs. thumb club and the routine nap schedule vs. activity centered schedule club!!

By Sandra on March 23, 2010

I am breastfeeding, don’t believe in circumcision and am very happy to have had a VBAC. I have participated in meetings that set as their goal to support women wanting to have a VBAC, in that meeting a woman who had a second cesarean told her story….she was welcomed, supported, and EMBRACED. She was not sent away or made to feel uncomfortable. Many women in my circle of friends are breastfeeding advocates (as am I), but would never turn up their noses at women who were bottle-feeding. Many of my friends in the AP community have had home births, but openly wept for joy when I told them of my hospital birth. These women have been to me a source of strength, not judgement. They work to raise mothers up, not tear them down.

I’m sorry, but to me this post is quite transparent as a shot at those communities which you feel have rejected YOUR methods.

Your generalizations are divisive and pit the reader against anyone who may practice any of the above without judgement. Sadly, your club is the one who attempts to discredit those who disagree with you. I can see it quite clearly and it is unfortunate.

By Lizette on March 25, 2010

It has been my experience that there is far more judgment and criticism of those parents who do not exclusively breast feed, who do things more “medically” (use bottles, have hospital births or who have c-sections voluntarily). Those who deny it have, I think, not taken the time to consider how insecure they would feel if they were judged for their decisions. 

One of the previous bloggers mentions the need for us to respect each other’s decisions and keep foremost in mind that each family does its best.  It is not easy to suspend judgment nor to be compassionate when one strongly disagrees with someone else but it is necessary and it is the right thing to do.  I think that our society is not parent nor child friendly, that we are distanced from our families who would otherwise help us to feel like we lived in a supportive community.  It’s very sad.

I am about to have my second child with a planned c-section. Some of my friends have judged me and they are surprised to hear I won’t slog it out to breast feed. It really , really hurts and this is a wound that will take me years to heal, particularly because my decisions are based on a very keen sense of what works for me and baby. 

Thank you, Kitty, for having the courage brought to attention the divisiveness among parents. I pray that over time it will soften and ultimately dissolve.

Sincerely,
Alexandra

By Alexandra on March 27, 2010

And then there are those people, probably 99% of parents or more, who don’t care in the least what philosophy other parents follow, so long as they treat their children with love, respect and kindness, and care for them well, day and night.

Parents of today’s children know that parenting isn’t a club; it’s a 24-hour-a-day job that lasts from the birth of the child to the death of the parent. Rather than trying to perpetuate outdated stereotypes and continue to pit parents against each other by imposing labels on them, why not embrace ALL of parents’ loving choices as being the best for that child?

By Julie on March 27, 2010

All parents care- the idea of dividing everyone up into clubs is kind of silly- people do what they think is best, period. Thank goodness we live in a world with so many extremes, it makes it easier than ever to find support for whichever decisions feel best. I think the over-generalized descriptions you gave to some of these practices doesn’t serve anyone, it looks like you’re making fun of everyone. How does that help children?

By LisaRussell.org on April 10, 2010

Kitty I assume as a parenting expert you’ve actually taken the time to participate in these groups to come up with these conclusions.

The ironic thing is, while your looking on the outside seeing these groups, and your seeing them as being there as a (example) breastfeeding only group, and you assume it’s to exclude anyone who doesn’t breastfeed, These groups start because there is a need for support in these areas. I wouldn’t know anyone who breastfed beyond a few months if it was for my local breastfeeding group. It’s not because I don’t want to make friends with people who don’t breastfeed it’s because it’s so helpful to be around people who do. I wouldn’t get that outside these groups, or in general parent clubs. Same goes for home birth etc, especially VBAC where there is very little support even in the medical community. If anyone feels it’s unfair that there’s no exclusive bottle feeding groups, hospital birth groups because it’s hard to find others who do the same, then by all means go and set one up, in fact I really recommend it because if you feel that way it makes so much difference.

By Jade on April 24, 2010

You are right that it feels good to get support for your choices.  We need that. But how do we draw the line between true support groups versus groups that decide to lobby for their “cause?”

By Kitty on April 25, 2010

Why draw the line? Why is it so wrong to lobby, raise awareness for those issues we feel passionate about? La Leche League would be considered a group that lobbies, raising awareness about breastfeeding while also supporting those who desire to…they don’t do this in the name of exclusion but support. VBAC groups lobby as well, not only in support of those women seeking VBAC but letting women know it’s an OPTION and a desirable one at that!

There’s nothing wrong with having a “cause”...nothing wrong with wanting the support of a community and letting others know that the particular community does exist. The communities you identify stand out because of being within a larger mainstream community, they establish themselves and perhaps need to raise voices a little louder so that they don’t get lost in the crowd. This in itself does not lead to divisiveness. Creating fear of these groups and characterizing them as exclusive creates barriers to communication rather than helping the situation.

By Lizette on April 25, 2010

Thank God for La Leche League. They have supported me breastfeeding my daughter, which IS medically proven the healthiest way to feed babies. Many people belittle my attempts but La Leche League, while yes they lobby for their noble cause, supported me 100% in my journey of the best way for our family to feed my child. We meet tomorrow and we will help anyone who shows up for breastfeeding support and advice. We’re not a club and our purpose isn’t to exclude anyone. Breastfeeding isn’t the popular choice if you look at current statistics, so I do not see the issue with offering support and education groups.

I just got the vibe that you are making fun of people who chose to parent the way I do. I am just doing what works best for my family and doing only what I can handle to do emotionally. I don’t see why my daughter needs to cry in order to sleep? She has learned how to sleep very well and never had to cry.

I guess my question is, why did you make your comparisons so black and white? There was no gray area and that is just not realistic. I babysat for a mother who used formula and bottles throughout the day and breastfed her baby before work and at night (nursed until the baby was around 18 months). She didn’t fit into any of the stereotypes you drew up here.

By Alison Lesinski on May 10, 2010

Oh, I hear you, Kitty. I never breastfed our twins, for medical reasons,(oh there I go again, feeling like I must justify my actions when there really is no need to). I took a lot of stick for bottle feeding, from hospital staff, other mothers, even my mother-in-law (she was the worst actually).
To be honest, I’ve had it to the back teeth with others telling me I’m not doing the right thing for my kids. It’s not true, I _am_ doing what is best for them, by making the choices that work for OUR family.
We put the twins down to sleep in the next room, AWAKE. They would sometimes have a bit of a fuss or cry, but it didn’t kill them.
We didn’t carry them around constantly, we left them to play by themselves, and that didn’t kill them either!
I guess it comes down to doing what is right for _your_ family, in _your_ circumstances. Until someone else has lived my life I think them totally unqualified to comment, thus I give their opinions the respect they deserve.
What really gets up my nose is that many generations of women worked very hard and sacrificed so much for womens’ liberation. I don’t think they made those sacrifices so that today I can be told what to do with MY life and MY body by other women!
Don’t you just want to yell at these people and tell them to butt out? I do, and I have. They don’t like it, but they don’t say another word.

By Kathryn Bellamy on May 26, 2010

“There is the VBAC Club for parents who advocate vaginal births following a previous cesarean birth.  Pamphlets, donations and “efforts to get the word out” dominate these club meetings.  WARNING: Should you end up having a 2nd cesarean birth, you can’t belong…there is no Club for you, as far as I know”

As one of the co-leaders for the local VBAC group I am really offended my this. We are a support group, not an exclusive club. We offer our time to give support to mothers who WANT a VBAC. We don’t push VBAC on anyone. Our goal as a support group is to let mothers know that they have CHOICES in birth. We want mothers to feel INFORMED, whether they choose to have a c-birth or VBAC. And if a mother has a 2nd c-birth she is welcomed to our meetings, not shunned away.

Kitty, please get your facts straight. If you have never attended such a meeting, maybe you shouldn’t be commenting on them.

By Kirsty Woz on July 6, 2010

I completely agree, it is so sad to see parents judging one another rather than accepting that every parent does what they feel is best for their family, whether that be bottle or breast, CIO or not, stroller or sling, etc. I have left groups where I felt this keenly, and have always felt most comfortable in my local AP group - where thankfully there is a great cross-section of slings and strollers, cloth and disposables, soothers and thumbs, timeouts and logical consequences, even a few bottle feeders (who are supported as are other parents), although I have to say, no one who lets their baby cry it out. However that is by and large due to the fact that no one who practices CIO ever applies to join the online group nor attends the free playgroups. It does feel great to be part of a group that has created what I feel to be the village I needed to rally around and support each other and our children!

By Lindsay on July 6, 2010

I started raising my son on my own when he was 9 months. He had been breastfeeding right up until the day it was just him and I. Our first sleep with just the two of us was an amazing experience I’ll never forget. While sleeping, I suddenly felt something wet kissing my chest. It was my son looking for a nipple. I felt so bad for my little guy. I immediately put together the freshest ingredients on the farm, made him a smoothie (the contents of which would be grounds for formation of another group) and gave it to him in a bottle. He loved it and so began a 4 year epic adventure to create the best smoothie ever as his newfound addiction knew no bounds.

Alas, this experience did not qualify me for the breastfeeding club.

Support groups play an important role in society. I suggest we focus on the generally positive aspects - education, encouragement and avoid defaulting to worse case scenarios. With respectful sharing and interaction, perhaps we can create a superior understanding. It is really our children who are the big winners of that approach.

Bloggers also seek to create discussion and dialogue amongst readers. An oft used tactic is to push a few buttons. In that regard, well done, KR.

By Paul Hughes on July 7, 2010

I must be lucky. I belong to a number of clubs - the extended breastfeeders club (PAST 3 years! I got a gold watch!); the cloth diapering club; the disposable diapering club; the early toilet training club AND the child-led toilet training club; the hospital birth club AND the natural childbirth club (TONS of inner turmoil over that one, lol); the soother club; the co-sleeping club AND the sleeping-in-her-own-bed-through-the-night-with-no-emotional-issues-nor-sleep-issues-nor-bedtime-battles-by-age-two club (another gold watch, if you ever need to know the time I’m your gal); the homeschooling club; the babywearing club; the child-led solids club; and the logical consequences club.
Among my very closest friends I count members of the bottlefeeding club; the medicated hospital birth club; the abortion club; the breastfeeding club; the stroller club; the thumb-sucking club (the kids, not the moms, I swear); the elimination communication club; the VBAC club; the spanking club; and the I-never-want-kids club.
Guess I buck the trend

By Polly on July 7, 2010

At Kathryn, Unfortunately, these things are not just about a woman’s body and her life, they are also about the life and future of her child.  I think as mothers, we have to have all of the information so that we can make an informed decision.  Every choice we make from the moment we are pregnant will have an effect on our child.  None of us are perfect, but we have to be aware that things like formula, epidurals, chemical cleaners etc.  will all have cumulative effects on the long term health of our child.  All of us CHOSE to bear and keep our children, so we chose to accept the responsibility as well.  I am a feminist, and I am liberated, but I don’t see how that changes the fact that I chose to have children and therefore must sacrifice some of my selfish pleasures in order to meet their needs.
Oh and Kitty always makes me laugh with her opinion that children have not changed, so why has sleeping become such a problem (must be those crazy breast-feeding advocates!) yet in the next part states that children have changed and can’t be potty trained as early as they used to be.  Well DUH!  If you spend the first years of your child’s life training them to sleep through the night in a soggy diaper, of course they are going to be harder to potty train! In my circle of Attachement parents who co-slept, many of the children, including mine, were easily out of diapers at 18 months.  Potty training isn’t so hard if you can read your child’s needs and consistently try to meet them.

By Kate on July 7, 2010

Hi all,
I just need to say that it is thanks to Kitty’s advice that I was able to breastfeed my son at all. After three weeks of struggling I went to the La Leche league to seek help with VERY painful breasfeeding, and a fussy baby, who would feed for an hour and still not be satisfied. The advice I was given by two separate women was to stick with it, but to tube feed my son in between breast feeding to give myself a “rest”. After two weeks of suffering through feedings, only to have to pump what little milk my exhausted body could produce in between so that I could hook a tube to my finger and feed my child via this contraption, I was seconds away from a nervous breakdown. Instead of sleeping, I was pumping, and when I sought help from La leche league yet again, the advice was the same, breastmilk at all costs! The best parenting advice I have ever gotten was from Kitty when she told me that maybe I should consider giving my son a bottle, instead of doing the tube feedings. As soon as I was able to let go of my crippling fear that I was being selfish by not suffering through breastfeeding for my child, lo and behold, all our problems cleared up. My milk supply tripled after I started my son on bottles, and he happily nursed from a relaxed mother, who wasn’t in pain and hating every second of it. The pressure to breastfeed was so high that when I found myself struggling with it, I could not face “quitting”, and doing what was best for both me and my son. Thank you Kitty for your determination to counter that pressure and let moms know that they can let go of all the guilt associated with the dreaded bottle.
I forgot to mention, as an RN, the pressure to breastfeed was at least partially from myself, as I had been drilled again and again in school about the health benefits of breastmilk. Interestingly enough, I don’t recall a single lesson on the importance of infant sleep.

By Amy Maxwell on July 14, 2010

With sincere thanks to all who responded to this blog, I am now closing the Comment section for this entry. 

Allow me to extend apologies to VBAC for including them as a group that might “lobby” rather than support. I appreciate the correction. 

I continue to urge parents to seek support for all areas of parenting—but also to be cautious about any group or individual whose standards or advocacy efforts cause you to feel judged or guilty.

Again, thank you all for a wonderful, honest and heartfelt discussion.

By Kitty Raymond on July 19, 2010